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Some News and Notes on the Chiba Lotte Marines – Shame on the Lotte Oendan

by on Sep.28, 2009 @ 4:09 am, under NPB

I thought I'd list out a few interesting bits of news regarding the Marines over the last couple of days.

- Bobby Valentine handed out this message card to fans at the game against the Buffaloes on the 26th.

Bobby Valentine Note (Sanspo)

Bobby Valentine Note (Sanspo)

- Tsuyoshi Nishioka apparently wasn't too happy about the fans in right field and the banners they held up on Saturday.

Banners out in right (Sanspo)

Banners out in right (Sanspo)

The worst banner is that small one you see.

瀬戸山、石川、米田 全員死刑

which basically means:

Setoyama, Ishikawa, Yoneda - Death Penalty to all

And his hero interview at the end of the game where he basically asks the fans in right field to take down their banners for the game tomorrow.

He essentially said that the banners were largely inappropriate because it was taking away from all the hard work the players put in during the season and doesn't send the right message to the kids in the stands.

Honestly, I have to agree with Nishioka.  Why the fans in right field felt it was necessary to stoop down as low as the front office, I have no idea.  Frankly, it's a big disappointment.  They accomplished so much and then to turn around and pull something like this?

And in an awful show of showmanship, the fans in right field apparently felt it was necessary to put Nishioka down prior to his at bat on Sunday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJw5_nJxX0Y

Are you kidding me?!

And here are some of the banners they held up:

Nishoka Banners (source: unknown)

Nishoka Banners (source: unknown)

祝110安打達成(笑)

Congrats on hit number 110 (smile)

西岡剛の正直しんどい

Nishioka Tsuyoshi's honesty is a drag

二日酔いで談合・サボリ 夢を語るスピードスター

Missing a conference because of a hangover -- the Speed Stars speaks of dreams

今日も狙って!!

Hit one this way again!!

よ!偽善者

What's up, hypocrite!

Gee, what class.

It's very disheartening to see the Lotte Oendan doing something like this.

(If someone from the Lotte Oendan would care to explain their side of the story, please, feel free.)

Ok, enough about that, I'll get off my soapbox now.

- Benny Agbayani hit a solo homer in the bottom of the 2nd in Sunday's game against the Orix Buffaloes.  As he rounded the bases and headed back toward the dugout, it was announced that the at bat was his last as  a Marine.

10 comments on “Some News and Notes on the Chiba Lotte Marines – Shame on the Lotte Oendan

  1. Blacklabel

    Hey thanks for the site, I stop by quite a bit, so appreciate the work you put into it.

    About Nishioka, I dont know. I was there at the game both the day he had the hero interview where he said that stuff and the next day as well to see the aftermath.

    He said some pretty unnecessary things (in my opinion) and the fans let him know how they felt about what he said and made it really clear that they dont agree.

    None of those signs say anything to take away from the hard work the players put in or even blaming the players for their lack of results justifying removing Bobby. The signs just show the frustration with ownership and their mistreatment of Bobby and the fans that has been going on all year long. Yeah the “death” sign a little too much, but just trying to show their level of discontent.

    So by saying what he did when no comment was even necessary, he chose sides and he basically chose sides for management and against Bobby. That now calls into question his total lack of results this year and makes you wonder if there are any motives behind that. Lends a lot of truth to the rumors that ownership has “favorites” who have been assisting them in the destruction of the team chemistry this year.

    So the fans froze him out for one at bat and then booed him a couple of times. But after that, people cheered for him as hard as they ever did. Right after the final out, Tsuyoshi took off his cap and bowed in three directions, including to the ouendan. So seems he knows he said something wrong or at least something that didnt need to be said.

    1. Gen Post author

      Thanks your side of things Blacklabel. I appreciate it.

      Now Nishioka say anything else other than what was said during his hero interview? I know he also said something about hitting a home run in that direction because he was frustrated (I think he mentioned it in an interview with the media) but I can recall anything else he might have said that would be considered “pretty unnecessary.”

      When I saw the hero interview, the section where he asks the fans to take down their banners for the next game, it sounds like some of the fans are actually cheering his comments, which leads me to believe that there were some fans that agreed with his assessment that Ouendan were doing a little too much.

      I can understand the frustration on the Ouendan side, but I can’t help but feel the potential frustration on the player side as well. Sure Bobby’s leaving, but the team itself is still going to be there. At times it must feel like to the players that once Bobby leaves, so to will many of the Ouendan in right.

      Again, I don’t really know the history of the Marines’ Ouendan, so I can’t really comment much on that aspect.

  2. Deanna

    I wasn’t at the Lotte games this weekend after all. Honestly, though, while the death penalty one is a little extreme, the fact that the Lotte front office doesn’t seem to care about the fans in the right field stands is a little weird.

    One thing I can mention — Bobby personally signed every one of those cards, I believe…

  3. Blacklabel

    Gen,

    Thanks, good to talk to you.

    I guess what I was saying is the whole thing was pretty unnecessary. He had a decent game, which doesnt happen as often as it did in previous years. So why when he finally gets a chance to get the mic why do we get the whole speech about the signs and appearing to side with the ownership against the fans? (and his manager by default)?

    To me, the team is finally playing up to their ability- albeit way too late-, so why go and try to mess that up? Just finish out the year strong, let Bobby have some satisfaction that this is the way they should have played all year for him and let that be that.

    Yeah the ONE sign was kinda bad, if he had said that was inappropriate, then I agree. But he was talking about ALL the signs and that he feels that it doesnt give credit for the hard work of the the team and he basically seemed to order the fans to stop fighting with management because it is bad for the future. Kinda like well ok thats all over now, time to move on. Well the future can start NEXT year, as Tsuyoshi found out. Whatever, he is entitled to his opinion and so are the fans.

    I think we should have heard THIS instead:

    “I am really happy that today we were able to get a win. The team has been playing well recently, I am glad that our hard work is starting to pay off again. I feel bad that despite all our effort we were unable to win enough games for our manager and as a result he wont be with us anymore after this year. I understand the frustration of you fans and as players myself and my teammmates have to take responsibility for the results of our team on the field and our role in our manager being let go. Looking to the future, we need your support and we will continue to fight hard for our fans and for the Marines.”

    Now something like that would have gone over well. Its not too different from what he I think he intended to say. He was just saying “hey let it go and lets focus more on our team and less on fighting with management which serves no purpose except to divide and distract”. Good points all, but he came off as kind of self serving and as kind of a kiss ass by the way he said it. So he paid the price with some silence and some boos. Maybe next time he will think a little more.

    1. Gen Post author

      True, he may have been able to say things in a different way. But to me, his speech sounded pretty genuine. His voice was even quivering at one point, and I think it’s because he was nervous. What he said definitely wasn’t scripted ahead of time, at least from what I can tell, and the fact that he sort of kept avoiding the main point until the very end tells me he was struggling to really come out and say what was on his mind. He even says that it might not even be his place to say something because of his performance this season.

      I don’t know, I don’t really get the feeling that he was taking sides with his speech. I also don’t know that he specifically said ALL banners (unless he said something else in another interview).

      Actually, I’ll go ahead and post the actual interview in Japanese along with my translation of it in another post shortly. That might help clear up some of the confusion.

  4. Chiba!

    This entire incident would not have occurred ;

    If the front office controlled by Setoyama,
    Ishikawa, and Yoneda (a) did not decide and
    announce the release of Manager Bobby Valentine
    in December 2008 (before the 2009 season starts
    REGARDLESS of the record in 2009), (b)release key
    players such as Jose Ortiz and Yasutomo Kubo,
    (c) made proper player acquisitions such as Kim Dong
    Joo and others, (d) not intervene with the team
    (e) support Bobby and the team throughout the season.
    If the above was done but the team didn’t make the
    playoffs, and Bobby is let go I don’t think we
    would’ve complained to this extent.

    On Saturday, we were putting up the banners asking the ownership to fire the front office. We’ve made
    banners stating the terrible things that the front
    office have committed. For lack of better words, the front office has sabotaged the season.

    We don’t think we could support the team from the
    bottom of our hearts if the front office with poor
    management skills making evil decisions. We want
    Setoyama, Ishikawa and Yoneda to be held accountable
    for the poor performance of the team in 2009 and
    kicked out the door.

    After various ignored peaceful actions throughout the year including requests for a “fan meeting”(aiming
    for the right change), it has come down to the
    banners. (pretty much the last resort)

    That is why it had to be done.

    The death penalty banner was extreme but I can’t
    speak for that guy, unfortunately.

    So, As for Nishioka’s comments…
    I think it was unfair for him to criticize and speak
    of “children’s dreams” and use the “if you love the Marines” line. Especially when he wasn’t trying hard
    this year when Marines were still alive in the
    playoff hunt, when he is witnessed as a drunk and
    skipping the game next day because of a hangover, and
    many other reasons.

    “if you love the Marines”? We’re doing it because
    we strongly feel that the presence of the three front
    office execs will fataly harm the club in many ways.

    and “dream?” What about our dream, that was destroyed
    by the front office?

    The dream of winning a championship in 2009 and maybe start off a dynasty.

    Or truly uniting the entire stadium to create the
    toughest park for the visiting club to play in.

    Or one day Marines becoming a leading professional
    ballclub in the world.

    Or one day Bobby taking us to a True World Series or even to an exhibition game with the MLB champs that
    would lead to the inauguration of such series.

    We immediately felt hypocritical.
    That’s why we’ve decided to respond.

    But the root of this problem is not the players, not
    the fans, nor the manager and coaching staff. It’s the front office three. And the ownership.

    Sorry for writing a blog in your reply column.

    1. Gen Post author

      Please, don’t apologize. I appreciate your explanation. An acquaintance of mine (we both know him) actually called me up to explain to me some of the history behind Nishioka and I think I understand that part of the story a little better now. I’ll probably try to write up another post that pulls all of these things together.

      Again, I appreciate your reply. This is exactly what I was hoping get — that is, some insight from the side of the Ouendan.

      Please don’t hesitate to throw in your 2 cents in the future. I want to make sure everyone feels comfortable enough to post their own thoughts on this blog.

    2. westbaystars

      Regarding the Nishioka’s “children’s dreams” part, when ever a politician wants to push something through (limiting of rights) that most people would object to, they invoke the phrase “think of the children.” As soon as a politician utters that phrase, I know that something is wrong.

  5. westbaystars

    My impression of the speech was that, in a nutshell, he said, “Drop the politics and let’s just cheer for the team.”

    When I was a younger lad I’d have probably felt the same way. But I understand how politics work now. I now see how, if a single group with power continues on unchecked and unchallenged, that they will continue to gain more power, making their overthrow much harder. (Lotte’s front office, Microsoft, the Bush administration, Fox News, etc.) Tyranny must be fought on all fronts. Don’t lay down those banners.

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